The wiki article is [here](https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Using_%22ba%22_sentences).
I originally posted a much shorter version of this question [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChineseLanguage/comments/zhvzoh/%E5%BF%AB%E9%97%AE%E5%BF%AB%E7%AD%94_quick_help_thread_translation_requests/izutdht/), in the 快问快答 thread. I got some interesting answers but I think it deserves its own post.
I recently started studying the 把 construction. I noticed that pretty much every resource seems to think that 把 sentences are SOV. I checked the grammar wiki to see if there was more detailed information; the wiki agrees that 把 sentences are SOV and they provide this example sentence and explanation:
>放书在桌子上 。**⇐ Incorrect, according to the wiki**
>”The problem is that the above Chinese sentence is not grammatical. *You can’t put an object right after a verb, and then put other modifiers of the verb after the object.*”
>把书放在桌子上 。**⇐ The only grammatical alternative, according to the wiki**
By most accounts, this explanation on the grammar wiki appears to be wrong, and 放书在桌子上 is perfectly fine. But not by *all* accounts.
Some say that both of these are correct:
>放书在桌子上
>在桌子上放书
If both are correct, what’s the difference?
Someone else said (in agreeance with the wiki) that the only two grammatical choices are:
>在桌子上放书
or
>把书放在桌子上
What’s right? What’s wrong? Which word order carries what nuance?
My beginner take on 把 constructions is that they are actually standard Chinese sentences in SVO order. It seems to me that what makes the 把 construction unique is that 把 is used as an abstract dummy verb that cues specificity (a specific object known to both speaker and listener) and disposition (the state or position of the object changes in some way).
Compare these two sentences:
我买一盏台灯放在桌子上。
我把一盏台灯放在桌子上。
Aren’t these both correct? If so, then grammatically, they’re nearly identical. Both are SVO. In the first one, the verb is 买 to express “buy,” and in the second one, the verb is 把 to express specificity and disposition.
I don’t know who or what to believe, but I suspect the Chinese Grammar Wiki is wrong on this one.
If I’m right, then 放一本书在桌子上 means “put a book on the table,” and 把一本放在桌子上 means “put ***the*** book on the table.
Thoughts?
EDIT: a typo
![TOP 5 Classroom Games [ESL Activities]](https://languagelearnerguide.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/1622064363_maxresdefault-370x297.jpg "TOP 5 Classroom Games [ESL Activities]")
I’ve replied this in quick help thread, but I think the problem you meet is the definition of “correct”.
放書在桌上 is wrong because it break the basic “prepositional phrase before the verb” rule, but on the other hand it doesn’t lead to any confusion, so it is 100% understandable.
In a broader sense, “understandable” means “acceptable” although it isn’t **grammatically** correct.
For beginners and medial level learners, I would say only “grammatical correct” is correct. For advanced learner, feel free to explore all the usages.
Back to your sentence, the “prepositional phrase before the verb” rule is always hold, but it can be occasionally broke in a situation: when you are speaking, you forget to say the prepositional phrase, and you add it after you finnish the sentence.
甲：你剛剛去做什麼？
乙：我剛剛去放書，在桌子上。
First of all, it only happens in a speech. Therefore a written sentence without any context is grammatically incorrect when it breaks the rule.
Secondly, we in fact seldom do this. In most of cases, we start a new sentence to add other information.
乙：我剛剛去放書。放在桌子上。
我買一盞檯燈放在桌子上 can be grammatical, but it is two sentences. 我買一盞檯燈 and then [把它]放在桌子上 with what’s in brackets implied by context. It is not identical in construction with your 把 example.
There’s no way 放書在桌子上 is correct. Whoever told you that is probably learning themselves.
Chinese grammar wiki is a good source….it looks right to me. But language is not math…as a beginner I don’t think it’s a great idea to be overly focused on stuff like this because you will run into a lot of things that don’t fit what you think is right.
I took a college course on Chinese linguistics and can confirm that the grammar wiki is right, 把书放在桌子上 is the only correct way to phrase the sentence. Not sure who told you that 放书在桌子上 is correct, but most native speakers like those in this thread will tell you that it sounds wrong. They will understand what you mean, though.
It actually isn’t possible to use an SVO structure for this sentence. Note that Mandarin is not really an SVO language, despite what some people say. Most linguistics consider it to be a topic-comment language. So some sentence structures like this one cannot be SVO.
All this information I’m relaying is from research papers and studies that have been done by linguists. You can read Li & Thompson’s “Mandarin Chinese: A Functional Reference Grammar” to learn more, or one of the many other sources out there that will also confirm this. However, I would advise you to look for actual published material from experienced linguists and be careful about info from blogs or other such sources, since a lot of people trying to teach Chinese haven’t actually studied the linguistics of it and are not always giving accurate information. From what I’ve seen the Grammar Wiki is a good source though, just be careful of some other sources out there.
放书在桌子上 sounds wrong to my ear. I have never heard anyone say this except babies learing to talk.
The article is not wrong
Unless a verb specifically allows a location after it, Mandarin does not like locations coming after verbs. For example:
我在一家银行工作 I work at a bank
You cannot put the 在 phrase at the end. 把 constructions allow you to work around this
> by most accounts … [it’s] wrong
Who? Why say most accounts and then give no source to back up your claim? You’ve come here to disagree with a well-respected grammar resource as a beginner? And you also are disagreeing with native speakers, as all the natives who have responded here and in the quick help thread have all said it’s wrong
> 把 is the verb
Chinese linguistics states that this usage is a preposition
You’re the type that tries to understand language by finding out it’s limitations, grammatical irrefutability and exceptions and ended up with a weirdly phrased question trying to see if a grander rule has notable exceptions because the rule slant make sense/doesn’t seem beneficial let alone necessary in your head. Isn’t that what happened?
There are two points supporting your statement that — “把” may cue “specificity”:
1. In some branch of the Chinese language, such as Cantonese, which has articles like 啲, the “把- construction” is not necessary. They simply use the same form you used. (They just put the article – 啲 in front of 書，and save the tedious 把-construct.)
2. Classical Chinese is also using of the simpler form: like「置書於檯」, no need use 把書置於檯上
​
By the way, I ‘d like to bring attention to this example sentence below:
今天，我賦閒在家。(Today, I am free at home)
Should one say:
今天，我”把閒”賦在家?
The “把-construct” is totally unnecessary in this sample sentence. (Why?)
How about
“我工作於銀行。” ? ( I work at a bank)
(this is short and neat Chinese)
Here, 銀行 is put after the verb 工作, via the prepositional 於，and violating the rule of the Wiki, but is this sentence still correct?
Or should one say, “我於銀行工作。”? (於 means 在)
*** (end)
My view is, if you are studying for exams, then just go with what the textbook or wiki dictated being correct.
I am still of the opinion, no grammars are broken in your original construct.
However, in the end, you probably wiser following the rules of Educational Institutes and their exams.
Finally I felt this question is a little bit like discussing:
(A) I work at a bank. (vs)
(B) At a bank, I work.
Sentence (B) not sounding natural to the native ears? LOL
Me native Chinese.
‘放书在桌子上’ is NOT INCORRECT. It’s just less used than ‘把书放在桌子上’. But literally it’s understandable and acceptable.
The slight difference is:
‘放书在桌子上’ emphasizes that ‘it’s the book which was put on the table’, while ‘把书放在桌子上’ emphasizes ‘it’s the table where the book is put on’.
It’s a bit strange, a little bit, since it emphasizes the ‘book’ but without further modifier or descriptor for the word ‘book’. A more usual expression would be ‘放一本书在桌子上’, which emphasizes ‘ONE book’, or more oral way ‘放本书在桌子上’ with the numberal word ‘一’ absent.
Chinese is an analytical language and the grammar is without strict rules. In most case when you search the vacabulary and grammar book of your mind and find one way, it always works!
Don’t be afraid to speak out following your mind, you will get corrected or asked to express in other way if it’s affirmed wrong or ambiguous. Then you get leveling up.
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It’s funny to see this post get downvoted… What do you want? 😉
我把一盏台灯放在桌子上。
This is wrong because you have to use a definite object when using a 把 sentence. You can’t use ＂一 ＋ mw”
我把那盏台灯放在桌子上。
Or
我把你的盏台灯放在桌子上。
would be correct.